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	<title>Comments on: Business intelligence: PivotLink v SAP, a tale of two worlds</title>
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	<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/</link>
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		<title>By: Open Source vs. SaaS BI: Choose Wisely &#124; GoodData</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6871</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Source vs. SaaS BI: Choose Wisely &#124; GoodData</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6871</guid>
		<description>[...] BI: Has SaaS Killed Open Source? BI SaaS Vendors Are Not Created Equal Business Intelligence: PivotLink v SAP, a tale of two worlds SaaS BI Continues to Draw Interest, Traction   Share [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BI: Has SaaS Killed Open Source? BI SaaS Vendors Are Not Created Equal Business Intelligence: PivotLink v SAP, a tale of two worlds SaaS BI Continues to Draw Interest, Traction   Share [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6870</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6870</guid>
		<description>Check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edificeinfo.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.edificeinfo.com&lt;/a&gt; for a hosted BI service tailored to the retail industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out <a href="http://www.edificeinfo.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.edificeinfo.com</a> for a hosted BI service tailored to the retail industry.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6869</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6869</guid>
		<description>Great post, accman.  I am a big SaaS BI proponent.  I have evaluated  and used many of the tools you are familiar with and I must say putting applications like BO or Cognos in the cloud is a bit like putting lipstick on a pig.  What impresses me about PivotLink is their data storage architecture, which gives you great flexibility and short implementation times.

Companies like Greenplum, Neteeza and Asterdata are eating into Oracle&#039;s and Teradata marketshare, in the same way that you have seen the open source apps, Jaspersoft and Pentaho gaining inroads vs. Microstrategy, BO, and Cognos. I suspect with PivotLink&#039;s 100% SaaS approach you will see this trend continue as fatigued IT execs scramble to move from under the burden of their existing BI contracts and more importantly, their resource abusing BI platforms.

Fahed: I think you make Ajay&#039;s point when you say &quot;difficulty and risk associated in trying to find PivotLink professionals&quot; as PivotLink does not require a &quot;professional&quot; to administrate or operate.  I am looking forward to this paradigm shift in BI.  Bring it on!

Bob Jones,
A twice burned BI deployer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, accman.  I am a big SaaS BI proponent.  I have evaluated  and used many of the tools you are familiar with and I must say putting applications like BO or Cognos in the cloud is a bit like putting lipstick on a pig.  What impresses me about PivotLink is their data storage architecture, which gives you great flexibility and short implementation times.</p>
<p>Companies like Greenplum, Neteeza and Asterdata are eating into Oracle&#039;s and Teradata marketshare, in the same way that you have seen the open source apps, Jaspersoft and Pentaho gaining inroads vs. Microstrategy, BO, and Cognos. I suspect with PivotLink&#039;s 100% SaaS approach you will see this trend continue as fatigued IT execs scramble to move from under the burden of their existing BI contracts and more importantly, their resource abusing BI platforms.</p>
<p>Fahed: I think you make Ajay&#039;s point when you say &quot;difficulty and risk associated in trying to find PivotLink professionals&quot; as PivotLink does not require a &quot;professional&quot; to administrate or operate.  I am looking forward to this paradigm shift in BI.  Bring it on!</p>
<p>Bob Jones,<br />
A twice burned BI deployer</p>
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		<title>By: Fahed Ismail</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6868</link>
		<dc:creator>Fahed Ismail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6868</guid>
		<description>@Ajay, I think your opinion in this matter is likely biased considering your role with PivotLink. Also in regards to the BusinessObjects &quot;full OnDemand Solution&quot; it is not exactly what AccMan is complaining about, as he stated that he did not participate in a call pertaining to that solution and stated the following
&quot;John Schwarz mentioned this when we last met and I do need to get around to looking more closely at these things&quot;
Also speaking to the 600 page manual I would consider the difficulty and risk associated in trying to find PivotLink professionals compared to Crystal Reports professionals. Should it really matter if you use a desktop product to create your analytics? (I mean from a Business Value perspective).
Also Dennis mentioned the following &quot;BusinessObjects is powerful stuff if you&#8217;re manipulating millions of records but who really does that?&quot;, so assuming your statement is correct that the &quot;full OnDemand Solution&quot; is just Business Objects hosted, then the value of the following statement &quot;PivotLink has production customers doing heavy duty BI modeling billions of rows of complex data from multiple sources and presenting self-service ad-hoc report creating and sharing capabilities to hundreds of business users &#8211; with enterprise grade security&quot; is likely lost, as a customer could select the Business Objects OnDemand solution and have the same capabilities and more leveraging, world class business intelligence from a proven vendor that has had success with over 43,000 customers worldwide.

Disclaimer: Also with Business Objects OnDemand</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ajay, I think your opinion in this matter is likely biased considering your role with PivotLink. Also in regards to the BusinessObjects &quot;full OnDemand Solution&quot; it is not exactly what AccMan is complaining about, as he stated that he did not participate in a call pertaining to that solution and stated the following<br />
&quot;John Schwarz mentioned this when we last met and I do need to get around to looking more closely at these things&quot;<br />
Also speaking to the 600 page manual I would consider the difficulty and risk associated in trying to find PivotLink professionals compared to Crystal Reports professionals. Should it really matter if you use a desktop product to create your analytics? (I mean from a Business Value perspective).<br />
Also Dennis mentioned the following &quot;BusinessObjects is powerful stuff if you&rsquo;re manipulating millions of records but who really does that?&quot;, so assuming your statement is correct that the &quot;full OnDemand Solution&quot; is just Business Objects hosted, then the value of the following statement &quot;PivotLink has production customers doing heavy duty BI modeling billions of rows of complex data from multiple sources and presenting self-service ad-hoc report creating and sharing capabilities to hundreds of business users &ndash; with enterprise grade security&quot; is likely lost, as a customer could select the Business Objects OnDemand solution and have the same capabilities and more leveraging, world class business intelligence from a proven vendor that has had success with over 43,000 customers worldwide.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: Also with Business Objects OnDemand</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Mittler</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6867</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Mittler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6867</guid>
		<description>Ajay ~

With all due respect, to classify Business Objects BI OnDemand (the &quot;full solution&quot; that Timo references) as the &quot;same Business Objects product, just hosted&quot; is a gross mischaracterization.

BI OnDemand was specifically created to address the challenges to which Dennis refers.  I.E. ~ making BI simpler, faster, easier and less costly to deploy.
Furthermore, Business Objects OnDemand is leading the way in SaaS BI with many paying customers.

Yes, BI OnDemand does leverage our best of breed, industry proven B.I. tools for certain components.  But our approach is to offer the best of both worlds: Industry proven, best of breed B.I. capability delivered via the SaaS model.  Our customers have chosen us because we can offer them the long-term stability of an industry leader with the cutting edge benefits that SaaS provides.

Dennis ~ You may be interested to know that, while many of our BI OnDemand customers are SMB&#039;s, we have also deployed BI OnDemand at some very large companies.  In my opinion SaaS B.I. can be a fit in organizations of any size.  I&#039;d be happy to arrange for a presentation of this solution if that is of interest.

Full disclosure, I work for Business Obects in our Ondemand group.

Aaron Mittler</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ajay ~</p>
<p>With all due respect, to classify Business Objects BI OnDemand (the &quot;full solution&quot; that Timo references) as the &quot;same Business Objects product, just hosted&quot; is a gross mischaracterization.</p>
<p>BI OnDemand was specifically created to address the challenges to which Dennis refers.  I.E. ~ making BI simpler, faster, easier and less costly to deploy.<br />
Furthermore, Business Objects OnDemand is leading the way in SaaS BI with many paying customers.</p>
<p>Yes, BI OnDemand does leverage our best of breed, industry proven B.I. tools for certain components.  But our approach is to offer the best of both worlds: Industry proven, best of breed B.I. capability delivered via the SaaS model.  Our customers have chosen us because we can offer them the long-term stability of an industry leader with the cutting edge benefits that SaaS provides.</p>
<p>Dennis ~ You may be interested to know that, while many of our BI OnDemand customers are SMB&#039;s, we have also deployed BI OnDemand at some very large companies.  In my opinion SaaS B.I. can be a fit in organizations of any size.  I&#039;d be happy to arrange for a presentation of this solution if that is of interest.</p>
<p>Full disclosure, I work for Business Obects in our Ondemand group.</p>
<p>Aaron Mittler</p>
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		<title>By: Ajay Dawar</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6866</link>
		<dc:creator>Ajay Dawar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 04:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6866</guid>
		<description>Timo

With all due respect CRDC (crystalreports . com) is not the equivalent of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pivotlink.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.pivotlink.com&lt;/a&gt;. Far from it. The CRDC website clearly says &quot;Crystal Reports (sold separately)&quot;. You create a report in desktop  software called Crystal Reports (if you get past the 600 page manual) and then you upload it to CRDC to share so that end users may not have to install Crystal Reports on their desktops. CRDC is just a report sharing service and not a full BI stack - which is what you allude to when you mention the other &quot;Full on-demand solution&quot;.

That said, this &quot;full on-demand solution&quot; is exactly what AccMan complained against - the same Business Objects product - just hosted. PivotLink has production customers doing heavy duty BI modeling billions of rows of complex data from multiple sources and presenting self-service ad-hoc report creating and sharing capabilities to hundreds of business users - with enterprise grade security. All On-Demand. Check out the REI case study  &lt;a href=&quot;http://(http://www.pivotlink.com/customers/rei)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;(http://www.pivotlink.com/customers/rei)&lt;/a&gt; as an exmaple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timo</p>
<p>With all due respect CRDC (crystalreports . com) is not the equivalent of <a href="http://www.pivotlink.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.pivotlink.com</a>. Far from it. The CRDC website clearly says &quot;Crystal Reports (sold separately)&quot;. You create a report in desktop  software called Crystal Reports (if you get past the 600 page manual) and then you upload it to CRDC to share so that end users may not have to install Crystal Reports on their desktops. CRDC is just a report sharing service and not a full BI stack &#8211; which is what you allude to when you mention the other &quot;Full on-demand solution&quot;.</p>
<p>That said, this &quot;full on-demand solution&quot; is exactly what AccMan complained against &#8211; the same Business Objects product &#8211; just hosted. PivotLink has production customers doing heavy duty BI modeling billions of rows of complex data from multiple sources and presenting self-service ad-hoc report creating and sharing capabilities to hundreds of business users &#8211; with enterprise grade security. All On-Demand. Check out the REI case study  <a href="http://(http://www.pivotlink.com/customers/rei)" rel="nofollow">(</a><a href="http://www.pivotlink.com/customers/rei" rel="nofollow">http://www.pivotlink.com/customers/rei</a>) as an exmaple.</p>
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		<title>By: Ajay Dawar</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6865</link>
		<dc:creator>Ajay Dawar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6865</guid>
		<description>Great post AccMan. Let me introduce myself. I work at PivotLink. Previously I worked at SAP BOBJ and before that at LucidEra and Siebel Analytics (now OBIEE). Companies like SAP that rely so heavily on services revenue and the IT people that rely so heavily on SAP to create complexity and job security, have created this monstrosity we now call BI.

My experience working with customers over the last decade has been that business users still struggle with simple challenges - like creating their own reports or their own calculations. The traditional BI vendors have buried simple capabilities in complex interfaces, have created thousand page manuals and expensive training programs. It is not just the mid-market that needs simplicity - users in big companies need simplicity too.

That is why we are terming our service Business Analytics to get away from the stigma of BI. When it comes to aggregating data, presenting and sharing the analysis, we do the job simply, affordably and quickly. Our users love us because we offer self-service capabilities and unburden IT from mundane tasks and help them refocus on important issues like data quality, secure access and cross-departmental coordination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post AccMan. Let me introduce myself. I work at PivotLink. Previously I worked at SAP BOBJ and before that at LucidEra and Siebel Analytics (now OBIEE). Companies like SAP that rely so heavily on services revenue and the IT people that rely so heavily on SAP to create complexity and job security, have created this monstrosity we now call BI.</p>
<p>My experience working with customers over the last decade has been that business users still struggle with simple challenges &#8211; like creating their own reports or their own calculations. The traditional BI vendors have buried simple capabilities in complex interfaces, have created thousand page manuals and expensive training programs. It is not just the mid-market that needs simplicity &#8211; users in big companies need simplicity too.</p>
<p>That is why we are terming our service Business Analytics to get away from the stigma of BI. When it comes to aggregating data, presenting and sharing the analysis, we do the job simply, affordably and quickly. Our users love us because we offer self-service capabilities and unburden IT from mundane tasks and help them refocus on important issues like data quality, secure access and cross-departmental coordination.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint Brauer</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6864</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Brauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6864</guid>
		<description>I discussed a related topic the other day on LinkedIn..as to the chief reasons someone buys SaaS BI vs. traditional.
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.linkedin.com/answers?viewQuestion=&amp;questionID=535391&amp;askerID=10928448&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.linkedin.com/answers?viewQuestion=&amp;amp...&lt;/a&gt;

Over time the SaaS BI tools will rival Cognos and others in terms of having very hardcore capabilities.  I know that we already have some of those functions at AnalytixOnDemand.

However, we are being very cautious (as are our competitors) on how we construct our interfaces to try and keep them as simple as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I discussed a related topic the other day on LinkedIn..as to the chief reasons someone buys SaaS BI vs. traditional.<br />
  <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/answers?viewQuestion=&amp;questionID=535391&amp;askerID=10928448" rel="nofollow">http://www.linkedin.com/answers?viewQuestion=&#038;amp&#8230;</a></p>
<p>Over time the SaaS BI tools will rival Cognos and others in terms of having very hardcore capabilities.  I know that we already have some of those functions at AnalytixOnDemand.</p>
<p>However, we are being very cautious (as are our competitors) on how we construct our interfaces to try and keep them as simple as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-/#comment-6863</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6863</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know cognos as well as I do SAP BW. However, with what little I have played with it -it is a lot more flexible on the actual reporting side. And yes - it has improved a lot in past few years. Cool  SOA foundation too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know cognos as well as I do SAP BW. However, with what little I have played with it -it is a lot more flexible on the actual reporting side. And yes &#8211; it has improved a lot in past few years. Cool  SOA foundation too.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Howlett</title>
		<link>http://www.accmanpro.com/2009/09/01/business-intelligence-pivotlink-v-sap-a-tale-of-two-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-6862</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Howlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.accmanpro.com/?p=5457#comment-6862</guid>
		<description>@Timo - John Schwarz mentioned this when we last met and I do need to get around to looking more closely at these things and yes, of course the BOBJ call was meant to be for larger enterprises. I did say in the post: &quot;I am of course over simplifying the case...&quot; but even so I still think there is a case for learning that could be applied in the enterprise. Compromises notwithstanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Timo &#8211; John Schwarz mentioned this when we last met and I do need to get around to looking more closely at these things and yes, of course the BOBJ call was meant to be for larger enterprises. I did say in the post: &quot;I am of course over simplifying the case&#8230;&quot; but even so I still think there is a case for learning that could be applied in the enterprise. Compromises notwithstanding.</p>
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