SAP Business ByDesign 2.5: time to invest?

by admin on August 3, 2010

in Cloud Computing/SaaS

Yesterday SAP announced the general availability of SAP Business ByDesign 2.5. In real world language that means it is there for anyone to check out and buy rather than what has been happening: a controlled release to achieve a baseline of 100 customers. Along with the release came confirmation that SAP is offering starter packs for as few as 10 users. These come in three flavours:

CRM: implementation in three weeks at a cost $13,500 (€9,900 £8,250) and a monthly subscription price of $89 (€65, £54) per user per month

ERP: integrated financials, accounting and analytics, implementation in six weeks at a cost of $37,500 (€ 24,900, £20,750) and a monthly subscription cost of $149 (€133, £120) per user per month

Professional Service Provider (PSP): implementation in eight weeks at a cost of $45,000 (€34,900, £29,100) and a monthly subscription cost of $149 (€133, £120) per user per month

On my ZDNet blog I said:

While the CRM package is attractively priced, I am less certain about the ERP offering. I don’t know for example where SAP is going to find a minimum of 10 ERP users at $149/month/user given it is concentrating upon financials and analytics. I could understand if it was targeting 3 full ERP users and 7 occasional analytics users and pricing accordingly. SImilarly, implementation pricing seems top heavy. I’d willingly pay $20-25K but $37.5K is a stretch. This seems to be signaling a minimum of 20 users on the basis of implementation equaling one years’ running cost.

The PSP offering should be attractive and I can see this doing well given the full process capabilities. Even so, $45K for implementation at the 10 person level is hard to justify without a full appreciation of the business advantages I’d expect to see. Perhaps they are signaling the 25 user company?

I’ve since thought some more about this. It is clear the CRM offering is aimed at the Salesforce.com and NetSuite CRM customer. SAP is trying to stick to its pricing guns where NetSuite and Salesforce will discount. How this will work in competitive situations has yet to be seen. However, as Salesforce and NetSuite continue to head up the food chain, they may choose to leave SAP scrapping over small company crumbs.

The ERP offering is too expensive both on implementation and monthly subscription. $6,250 per week may not seem a huge amount for implementation but at the end of the day, it’s an accounting system. If I’m moving from say a Sage 50 or Microsoft Dynamics then it can’t be that hard to parse the data across to SAP’s servers. Yes, the embedded analytics are very well executed and will provide a new dimension for accounting types to explore but does that justify $149/month? I can’t see it. I’d be more impressed if ERP was redefined to include HR admin and CRM at that price point.

PSP is the most interesting. It is a full end to end offering. Curiously, the per week implementation cost falls to $5,625 compared to the more limited ERP. That doesn’t make sense given this is a more complex solution requiring more care in assembly and configuration. Pricing the same as ERP also doesn’t make sense – or rather it makes ERP look expensive given SAP has always said that $149 was its per user per month price for all you can eat.

More important, SAP is signaling market benchmarks for implementation. In order to live with SAP, independent implementers will have to price significantly below SAP. They can do this through offsetting the monthly revenue stream they get from deals they close. In my analysis of a conversation between colleague Jon Reed and Ray Tetlow of Skyytek, I said:

[Ray] also says that with demand outstripping supply, the effective rates are higher for saas than on-prem deployments. That should be tempered against the need to ensure that these implementations happen swiftly and efficiently.

In turn, Ray’s firm reckons that implementation cost should run at about the equivalent of one years’ subscription cost. Assuming a 20 person business, then that comes in at about $36,000, slightly below SAP’s quoted ERP price and significantly below the PSP implementation figure. SAP will have worked out how to implement and provision at a figure which gives them a sensible economic return. The question remains – will the VARs and channel partners?

The SAP world is a magnet for implementers lured on the promise of huge returns. BYD will not give them that. As a pre-packaged solution that has limited configuration options it cannot command the premium the channel might think. The software developers’ kit (SDK) may give them more options. I know several SAP consultants that want to start coding ideas to test in the market. But given the starter pack size nature of the companies they will be talking to in the short term, I can’t see terribly many opportunities at the 10 person business size. At least not for the moment.

The potential to earn run on revenue from the monthly subscription number is a genuine incentive but will the channel understand this? They tend to ‘eat what they hunt’ having been brought up on a diet of large up front fees from which they might earn 40% plus one or two times license fee for implementation. Those days are fading into the distance and rapid adaptation to the new reality is essential. The upside is that volume of business should make up the delta, provided channel partners work hard to make sales.

If you’re on the buyer side, should you consider BYD? Absolutely. When I ran a deep dive back in 2008 I was impressed at the depth of functionality. As it has progressed, I like the analytics, the fact it will work on mobile devices, including iPad and the more general templating across a number of industries and geographies.

What about the channel? This is a new world and will require a new breed of sales savvy player. Deals are not just going to drop into the channel’s lap. They’ll have to work hard at going to market with the aim of achieving volume in much the same way the VSB players are doing. It won’t be easy but it won’t be impossible. If I was back in practice, I’d be trawling my client base right now and thinking about which would make strong candidates.

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Comments on this entry are closed.

Rtetlow August 3, 2010 at 9:08 pm

Dennis – I dont think 149/mth/user is for just accounting. Its for access to the whole suite based on role – in other words – HR, CRM, Accounting, MRP, ERP etc etc. if you so choose.

dahowlett August 3, 2010 at 9:24 pm

I’m aware of that Ray but that’s not what SAP said in the release. They need to be clear.

Rtetlow August 4, 2010 at 1:55 pm

point taken dennis.

Rtetlow August 3, 2010 at 9:08 pm

Dennis – I dont think 149/mth/user is for just accounting. Its for access to the whole suite based on role – in other words – HR, CRM, Accounting, MRP, ERP etc etc. if you so choose.

dahowlett August 3, 2010 at 9:24 pm

I'm aware of that Ray but that's not what SAP said in the release. They need to be clear.

Rtetlow August 4, 2010 at 1:55 pm

point taken dennis.

Martyn Shiner August 4, 2010 at 6:44 am

Dennis

‘integrated financials, accounting and analytics’ –

ummm in what world is this ERP? Where is the product data management? Where is the multi-location warehousing? Demand visibilty? Manufacturing execution?

Also, and as you rightly say, £20 grand plus to implement what is essentially an accounting package is pretty steep for the medium-sized SME let alone the small. If I were faced with that I’d buy some manufacturing hardware and live with my IT – or write my own…. oh been there, done that!

M

Martyn Shiner August 4, 2010 at 6:44 am

Dennis

'integrated financials, accounting and analytics' –

ummm in what world is this ERP? Where is the product data management? Where is the multi-location warehousing? Demand visibilty? Manufacturing execution?

Also, and as you rightly say, £20 grand plus to implement what is essentially an accounting package is pretty steep for the medium-sized SME let alone the small. If I were faced with that I'd buy some manufacturing hardware and live with my IT – or write my own…. oh been there, done that!

M

Dennis Howlett August 4, 2010 at 11:01 am

I’m guessing they’ve muffed the press release.

Writeprivate January 4, 2011 at 2:41 am

I’m really stuck. 25 people $5m turnover small manufacturer with 2 locations. As dealing in semi-perishable goods, we need good MRP and Warehouse. We use Sage 50 for financials and we have alegacy SOP/PSP/E-commerce solution that we wrote ourselves in the early dot.com days.

I am desperate to offload my LAN server and get into SaaS. From what i can see there is NOTHING in the market for my size company. Sage 200 is not ideal because even if hosted it is really desktop software and i fear it will be slow. I want Netsuite but its too expensive and anyway i hear it is very weak on manufacture. Besides they want to charge the same for all roles. The whole point of online ERP surely is that everyone is plugged into the business, so a production operators can print off job orders and receptionists can check the intranet or meeting room schedule. Salesforce is just CRM. SAP BD seems even more expensive (by the way – i’d love to follow best practice – i think i could learn a lot from thousands of professional implementors feeding back to software architects). I’ve even investigated Compiere and Openbrave, OpenERP et al. These things look good but are too early stage. Why Sage havent brought out an SME Saas offering is beyond me. What are they waiting for?

By the way when i write SaaS i dont mean cloud which seems to be used interchangebly these days. i want to buy a utility i dont want a relationship with Amazon or a reseller. I dont want to worry about updates creating bugs. I am very happy to be an instance on a server with 10 other companies who will ring up and complain if a bug fix isnt done.

I think that SaaS should charge by transactions and bandwidth so that the more you use the system and grow the more you pay. This encourages a full implementation and every user connected. I also think that anyone integrating Gmail (so we can lose exchange to boot) will be able to capture a whole slice of small company business like mine. If they want revenue give me a 3 year contract – just dont make it £20k per year.

What does anyone suggest?

ps. i like your ZDnet article

writeprivate@gmail.com

Dennis Howlett January 4, 2011 at 10:50 am

you’re raising some interesting points. Will elevate to a full post response.

Writeprivate January 4, 2011 at 2:41 am

I’m really stuck. 25 people $5m turnover small manufacturer with 2 locations. As dealing in semi-perishable goods, we need good MRP and Warehouse. We use Sage 50 for financials and we have alegacy SOP/PSP/E-commerce solution that we wrote ourselves in the early dot.com days.

I am desperate to offload my LAN server and get into SaaS. From what i can see there is NOTHING in the market for my size company. Sage 200 is not ideal because even if hosted it is really desktop software and i fear it will be slow. I want Netsuite but its too expensive and anyway i hear it is very weak on manufacture. Besides they want to charge the same for all roles. The whole point of online ERP surely is that everyone is plugged into the business, so a production operators can print off job orders and receptionists can check the intranet or meeting room schedule. Salesforce is just CRM. SAP BD seems even more expensive (by the way – i’d love to follow best practice – i think i could learn a lot from thousands of professional implementors feeding back to software architects). I’ve even investigated Compiere and Openbrave, OpenERP et al. These things look good but are too early stage. Why Sage havent brought out an SME Saas offering is beyond me. What are they waiting for?

By the way when i write SaaS i dont mean cloud which seems to be used interchangebly these days. i want to buy a utility i dont want a relationship with Amazon or a reseller. I dont want to worry about updates creating bugs. I am very happy to be an instance on a server with 10 other companies who will ring up and complain if a bug fix isnt done.

I think that SaaS should charge by transactions and bandwidth so that the more you use the system and grow the more you pay. This encourages a full implementation and every user connected. I also think that anyone integrating Gmail (so we can lose exchange to boot) will be able to capture a whole slice of small company business like mine. If they want revenue give me a 3 year contract – just dont make it £20k per year.

What does anyone suggest?

ps. i like your ZDnet article

writeprivate@gmail.com

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